tv CNN Newsroom With Fredricka Whitfield CNN May 5, 2018 8:00am-9:00am PDT
what did the president know and when did he know it? after a bombshell in "the new york times" that the president has known for months about the $130,000 hush money payment his lawyer made to porn star stormy tan you'lls to cover up an alleged affair which means he was well aware of the deal when he said this in april. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no, no. >> why did michael cohen make that payment? >> you'll have to ask michael cohen. michael is my -- an attorney and you'll have to ask michael cohen. >> do you know where he got that money to make that payment? >> i don't know. no. >> we now know those words are simply not the truth. jeremy diamond is live for us at the white house. the president is on air force one heading to cleveland for a tax roundtable. but did he say anything to reporters, anything more, about
all we've been hearing the last 24 to 48 hours? >> reporter: the president was walking to marine one. reporters were gathered. questions were shouted but no answers were given. the president, preferring, it seems, to allow this confusion that has settled here in washington, surrounding his payment, hush money payments of $130,000 to stormy daniels to simply hang out there. let's go back to wednesday night when rudy giuliani, the president's newly minted attorney confirmed for the first time that the president did, in fact, repay his attorney michael cohen for that $130,000 payment. rudy giuliani followed that up saying it was repaid through a $35,000 a month retainer. he also made clear that he wasn't just speaking on a whim, that he had spoken with the president before and after that initial interview. yet the president yesterday taking to -- talking to reporters, saying that rudy giuliani didn't have his facts straight, suggesting that reporters take a look at his
earlier denial of knowledge of that payment. what followed, though, is this "new york times" report that makes clear that the president, according to two sources that spoke with the "new york times," did know about that payment months before he made that very denial last month. rudy giuliani put out a statement saying he was describing his understanding of the matters but not necessarily the president's knowledge of those matters. little bit of a confusing statement there, particularly from a man who was supposed to represent the president, both publicly and in litigation. it appears that the president and his legal team here are trying to have their cake and eat it, too. they want to avoid any potential legal repercussions that michael cohen making that payment without getting repaid by the president would involve. but they also don't want the president to be deeply enmeshed in this payment to stormy daniels, who alleged she had a sexual encounter with the president. >> jeremy diamond, thank you very much.
so, mixed messages on the stormy daniels' payment still raising a whole lot of legal questions and even confusion. let's take a look back at how this all unfolded with cnn's athena jones. >> how is rudy doing, mr. president? how is he doing? >> constantly shifting explanations about the president, the porn star and the payoff. first, there was president trump's firm denial aboard air force one last month that he knew anything about the $130,000 payment, his personal lawyer, michael cohen, made to stormy daniels days before the 2016 election to keep her quiet about an alleged 2006 sexual encounter with mr. trump. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no. >> then why did michael cohen make that payment if there was no truth to her allegations? >> i don't know. michael cohen was my -- an attorney and you'll have to ask
michael. >> contradicted by one of trump's new lawyers, rudy giuliani. >> that money was not campaign money. i'm giving you a fact now that you don't know. it's not campaign money. no campaign finance violation. >> they funneled it through the law firm. >> funneled through a law firm and the president repaid it. >> again, thursday morning, saying of cohen -- >> he was definitely reimbursed. no doubt about it. >> attempting to clear up questions about what trump knew and when. >> he didn't know the details of this until we knew the details of it, which was a couple of weeks ago. maybe not even a couple of weeks, maybe ten days ago. >> rudy jew-- the president, wh spoke with him before and after the interview, background up his statements, adding money from the campaign or campaign contributions played no role in this transaction. friday, the story changing yet again. giuliani, who said trump
reimbursed cohen through monthly statements of $35,000 each now telling cnn he doesn't think trump realized he paid cohen back until giuliani made him aware of documents that showed he did. saying when he told the president trump responded oh, my goodness, i guess that's what it was for. a few hours later, the president again reversing course, suggesting giuliani, who joined his legal team two weeks ago, didn't have a full grasp of all the facts. >> rudy is a great guy but he just started a day ago. but he really has his heart into it. he's working hard. he's learning the subject matter. he started yesterday. he'll get his facts straight. >> adding before boarding air force one for texas -- >> when rudy made the statement -- rudy's great but rudy had just started and he wasn't totally familiar with every -- you know, with everything. >> all while insisting -- >> we're not changing any stories. >> giuliani issued a statement
friday meant to clarify his comments about the payment and the president's knowledge of it. saying in part my references to timing were not describing my understanding of the president's knowledge but instead my understanding of these matters. >> joining me now to discuss cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. the trump reimbursement payment and now today's "new york times" report about trump knowing of stormy daniels' hush money payment months prior and "the wall street journal" report of trump attorney michael cohen securing more than $700,000 in lines of credit before the campaign. how much bigger have these probes become? >> i'm not sure they become bigger. we're not sure whether or not the southern district of new york knew all of this and is investigating it and this is what gave rise to the search warrant issued against the cohen
properties, pen register against cohen's numbers. we don't know what they know. all we know is that there's more confusion than there's ever been. in large measure because of the inclusion of rudy giuliani on this team. this was a normal relationship between an attorney and a client. and the attorney did what rudy giuliani did, he would be fired. and he should probably be fired and sent back to new york, let the other lawyers who are actually practicing law day-to-day handle this matter, get out a story that is true, that we can understand and we can move forward from. >> different versions of events because giuliani said he and trump discussed, knew what was coming and giuliani came out with a statement, as we saw in athena's piece, and then the
president saying he's new. he needs to learn the facts. this is a matter deserving of a firing, you said. if the president keeps on giuliani, how is giuliani to work with or be in step with the white house counsel, including a new attorney, who has since joined the team? >> right. we have a couple of new lawyers. jane raskin and ty cobb is leaving. jay sekulow remains as the communications lawyer. giuliani has to become a member of that team who coordinates with that team and who, if he is going to be permitted to ever go on television again -- which i would preclude him from doing -- he has to be in touch with all the lawyers so the messaging is absolutely clear. what he did was in -- i don't know. i want to use the word disgraceful. what he did was disgraceful because he blind sided all the
other lawyers on his team when he was in a position not even aware of the facts or the law that governed federal election campaign contributions and, in-kind contributions and put his client, the president, in a terrible situation. >> isn't president trump calling the shots, that he did give the marching orders for giuliani to do this and that would be up for the president to say, all right, giuliani, i want you to work with or really get permission from my white house legal team. is that realistic? is it even reasonable to think that that is what would happen, the sequence of events that would happen? >> first, i think that rudy giuliani was freelansing much more than executing a well-considered strategy. i think his interview on "hannity" was not what was contemplated by the white house. so i think, therefore, he has to be essentially talked -- if not
fired he has to be talked to about never doing that again. sarah sanders didn't know he was going on. marty and jane raskin, jay sekulow appear not to have known what was going on. although we don't have firsthand knowledge of that. that would be the clear implications of what rudy giuliani did. it's up to the president to say to giuliani, you're either going to be part of this team, coordinate with this team or you're going to go back to new yo york. >> at the very beginning it would seem -- most of us heard giuliani say he would be russia probe centric, that he would be able to push the mueller team along, expedite things. what we saw this week had very little to do with that, expediting it. if anything, it added fuel to the mueller probe. does it not? or is that strictly a separate probe under the southern district of new york? >> i think it's separate,
fredricka. the controversy that he created is relevant to the southern district of new york case. however, rudy giuliani was, according to rudy giuliani, to come down here, talk to the mueller people and put this matter to rest in a few weeks, according to him. obviously that was not true. it was probably delusional at the time that it was said. if you're robert mueller and you see this guy acting as he does, you think i don't have a partner here with whom i can negotiate the terms of a potential interview. i can't trust this guy and that, i think, is a setback for the president in respect of the mueller investigation. i think robert mueller and his team has to know that he's dealing with people who he can be trusting of and confident in. their confidence with the president and speaking with the president. giuliani undermined the president in response to the mueller probe as well.
>> you just underscored the separation of the different probes, different cases but then when you have giuliani talking about the payment, the reimbursement made, then "the new york times" doing the math in addition to use of president trump's own tweets, $35,000 a month, which then amounts to something like $460,000 to $470,000 and then "the wall street journal" talking about the lines of credit over $700,000, how is that potentially of interest to the mueller probe? >> i think it will be further evidence of the mueller probe and new york's probe to get everybody's tax returns, to see how all of these financial transactions were treated. were they loans? were they payments from the business organization? how were they declared as economic? were they deducted? i think this controversy has created the opportunity, if it didn't already exist, for both
the southern district of new york and mueller to start looking at tax returns to determine whether or not there was tax sort of violations in the reporting of these transactions. that's not good. and, as well, what this does is it gives michael avenatti, in his case, more evidence to ask the judge to provide them the opportunity to take discovery from the president and the president's team because of the conflicting stories. it gives that ammunition for that argument. and that's not good. i think that case should have been dismissed by cohen long ago and she should have been relieved of her nondisclosure agreement and put an end to that as soon as possible but they didn't choose that route either. >> if we can shift gears but also by extension of the existing probe, paul manafort, former campaign manager in court for a motion to dismiss and then
the judge ends up injecting, perhaps, personal opinion into this, saying to the courtroom and to prosecutors, you don't really care about mr. manafort. you really care about what information mr. manafort can give you to lead to mr. trump. so how unusual or perhaps in-step is it for a judge to issue an opinion like that before issuing, you know, an official legal opinion or decision on a motion or in a case? >> well, it was a bit g gratuitous. he was expressing his opinion. he's the judge. he gets to express his opinion but i don't think it impacts the underlying merits of the case. manafort has moved to dismiss this case, the same way he moved to dismiss it in the district of columbia, where he says mueller is acting outside of the scope of his authority. district of columbia judge ruled he was, in fact, acting within
his authority and dismissed manafort's case. manafort tried it again in virginia. the judge made these gratuitous statements. but mueller and his team prevailed, acting within the scope of his authority, both in the original report and then the expansion by rosenstein, signed off by the tax division and national security division. the judge may not like this, but in the end i think the law favors mueller and the case moves forward. >> so the judge's opinion is separate from what is already stated in the permission of this probe? it says it's wide sweeping, right, and if there are other things uncovered along the way that it's fair game? >> that's right, and particularly with respect to paul manafort, what happened is apparently clear. mueller comes across additional information in his investigation, goes to
rosenstein and says what do you want me to do with this? keep myself or give it to the eastern district of virginia to prosecute? he says to mueller, you keep it. similarly he went to rosenstein and said in the cohen case, what do you want me to do about this? give it the southern district of new york or keep it? rosenstein gave it to the southern district of new york. he has made the determinations which office is best to prosecute the matter. if judge ellis decides it's beyond mueller's mandate, it doesn't get dismissed it just gets moved to the eastern district of virginia and they continue the case. it's not the end of it, just which prosecutor will handle it. >> judge t.s. ellis knows that, is there some ul techltterior m knowing that that opinion is not going to cement the demise of
that motion or that case? >> that's why i called it, in a sense, gratuitous. he may not like these sort of independent counsel investigations. a lot of people over the years have worried about the unfettered prosecutor with a fishing license. maybe that was his personal opinion he was expressing. in the end, he has to rule as the law requires him to rule. he has asked for the unredacted memo that rosenstein gave mueller -- which gave mueller the expansion and so hopefully when he sees that, he will understand more what mueller is up to and will rule, as the law requires him to rule, that mueller is acting within the scope of his mandate. >> interesting. michael zeldin, we're not done. we'll have you again, after a short break. >> okay. hundreds of people in hawaii are forced to evacuate after
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stephanie, what's the latest? >> reporter: fred, i wish that i could actually express to you just how amazing that was, standing that close to that fissure. the fact that it was that loud, that you could see the magma, that it was as orange as it was. it almost looked like it was fake. this is what they're concerned about. these fissures have kept opening up in the area of leilani estates, where we're standing by now. that is the concern. these fissures, they're dangerous, obviously. you've got hot, molten lava in the middle of these communities. they have some 1700 people who are evacuated, some 700 buildings under threat because of this. because of this molten lava that is moving in this volcano, they've had massive earthquakes that have knocked out power to people in this area and also causing the hawaii volcano's national park to close. take a look at one resident who had to evacuate, take a listen to what he had to say. >> we're holding up good. i'm with 11 people that have been displaced and our homeless
and workless right now, that were also working on my farm. it's been a real shocker, you know. the last day we were there, just thursday, we were making a good-bye dinner for one of our friends, making a dinner, about to enjoy dinner and then cops showed up and told us we had to go. everything changed in an instant. you have five minutes to pack your bags what you think you're going to need and you're off. >> reporter: and that is also part of the issue here. people are evacuated not just because of the fissures but air quality, sulfur dioxide in the air. it takes your breath away very quickly. it's very dangerous. they want people to stay way, fred. that's also why they're taking longer for first responders. they can't put them into these areas where that air quality is bad and the wind shifts and they move around. you see behind me they have this roadblocked here. part of the reason they have it further away is because of that air quality issue here because
it can change on a dime. >> stephanie i've been to the big island. talk to me about the xliks of being able to evacuate. the big island is also known to be a lot of farm land there, a lot of people with horses and livestock there. and just getting away is not so easy. you don't just get in a jeep and drive away. >> reporter: right. for some of these people, that was exactly their concern, about leaving. some people who stayed on the other side of these blockades because they were worried about their animals, their farm, knowing that that air quality issue was there. also you don't know where the fissure is going to open. the mayor of hawaii county saying that people -- anyone who tells you that they know what's going to happen when a volcano is erupting, they are lying to you. they're saying even the people who study these volcanos the closest don't know exactly where it may rupture, where you may find one of these fissures where the lava is spouting out of the earth. because of that it's just not
safe. that's why they're asking people to move. hawaii, the big island, is very large. there is -- it's almost like a different climate completely on the other side of the island, on the western side of the island. but still at the same time, you're right. there's not a lot of places you could go, especially if you're worried about your farms. >> stephanie elam, thank you. we'll check back with you. coming up, the president and the truth. they don't always go hand in hand. now the president is taking heat from conservative media outlets. so, why the change in tone now?
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misquotes, false equivalencies and flat-out lies. no stranger to bending the facts but increasingly some of his most ardent supporters are falling victim to the constant cover-ups. the president's attorney, rudy giuliani revealed trump did, indeed, paid back michael cohen to porn star stormy tan you'lls, something that the president and his subordinates have denied week after week. now, faced with facts they're being forced to answer for it. white house press secretary sarah on sunday -- on thursday, rather. >> you said on march 7th there was no knowledge of any payment from the president and he has denied all of these allegations. were you lying to us at the time or were you in the dark? >> the president has denied and continues to deny the underlying claim and, again, i've given the best information i had at the
time. and i will refer you back to the comments that you, yourself just mentioned a few minutes ago about the timeline from mayor giuliani. >> joining me right now, senior media correspondent host of reliable sources brian stelter, washington bureau chief for the sun times lynn sweet and senior political correspondent for the hill, amy barnes. when you hear sarah sanders say, quoting now, gave the best information, end quote, that she had at the time, what does that say to you? >> it's a hedge. it's a -- not a signal. it's admitting that you're not in the loop. that's a very hard position for a white house press secretary to be in because they have to sell their credibility. they have to sell their knowledge and reporters have to be convinced that you're going to a briefing or getting information from somebody who knows what's going on. and out of all the things we could do in this segment or in others to talk about the role of
the press secretary and sarah sanders, in a sense, not being in the loop is one of the more serious issues, one of the more serious problems for a place for a press secretary to be parked at, that place of not knowing what's going on. >> amy, if you're the press secretary and you're not in the loop, how long can you want to continue being the press secretary who is not in the loop, who has to answer the questions without having information? >> that's the problem. you know, i think she has had her moments of frustration where she feels like she's been in the dark, where people haven't been upfront with her. and that's what i've been hearing for weeks and months, coming from the white house. i think you have to kind of being in the loop to provide the best information, as she said. i don't even think the best information cuts it at this point. people want to get as close to the truth as possible. everyone in that room wants that. i think that moment was a little laughable for her and, definitely ate into her credibility going forward.
>> credibility of sarah sanders is certainly on the line. but, frankly, you know, brian, we're talking about the credibility of the entire white house. >> yes. >> and where the president has been able to receive a heck of a lot of the support and advocacy. fox news is also sounding like it's calling this administration's bluff. listen. >> he got in a shout out to kanye while attacked political opponents including jon tester, the president falsely stated that democrats want all guns outlawed and gave public support to texas senator ted cruz whose wife's looks he once attacked while falsely claiming his father was involved in the assassination of jfk. >> so, brian, this was after the president was at the nra in dallas. you've got fox news that's now saying, wait a minute. here is the hypocrisy and hold up, wait a minute. is he really speaking truth
here? what does this mean? is it like a potential seismic shift that the president or this administration is now facing? >> that was reporting 101 from shep smith. it sounds out because sometimes we don't see that elsewhere on fox news. when cable news channels, including cnn or fox, broadcast a presidential speech nowadays we have to come on right away and correct all the things that were said that were false. it is a sad reality of covering the trump administration 2018 but it's a necessary part of the job. that's what shep was doing, trying to tick through the errors and falsehoods in the speech. i do think, though, the most of the commentators on fox, the opinion side of the house, fox opinion hosts, they are still standing by the president, mostly by ignoring inconvenient and embarrassing facts. fox is not talking about the stormy daniels' payment in very much detail. they're not talking about "the new york times" scoop that trump apparently knew several months before he denied knowing. they try to ignore that, tune it
out, pretend it's not happening. that's typically the fox news way of handling things. >> it has been. is this signaling perhaps we might be seeing something else? >> there were a few signs of it, neil cavuto's recent viral essay, speaking truth to the president, telling him he has a problem with credibility. the editorial page also spoke out on this subject, both a friend of rupert murdoch. that is notable. sarah sanders, these individual examples of lies, they're all symptoms of a much bigger problem. and that is, as the media scholar jay rosen has said, there is no white house in the attritional sense. there's the president and the people trying to keep up around him. sarah sanders is not in the loop because nobody is really in the loop except for the president. this is the wall street journal editorial board statement from the other day talking about the stormy daniels damage. it went on to say that the
president -- would have a problem in a genuine crisis. that in a genuine crisis the public will not believe him because his credibility has been so stained. >> may i make a quick point here? >> yeah. >> what we're really talking about, i think, and maybe we're at a crossroads of if it's time for the white house to rethink what it wants is so far a traditionally structured communications operations since one of the jobs that president trump relishes is acting as his own communication chief and going so far as to dictate words, lines, whatever. this is not -- way out of the norm, which everyone here has talked about many times, how this presidency is not in the norm. in that case then, why subject the coms people to this, putting them out there, having their reputations damaged or dented if president trump just wants to be the communicator chief as well? >> they don't have a white house communications director ever since hope hicks left, the job
hasn't been filled. >> right. and it may never really be. it's time to restructure. i'm throwing it out there. maybe this is the crossroads we're approaching. >> and i'm wondering -- go ahead. >> there used to be this line that was applied by the russians, reagan used to cite it, trust but verify. in the coverage of this white house we have to verify before we can trust. there should be an assumption sometimes. what we're hearing is not correct. i'll give a short example. rudy giuliani a couple of days ago said three americans in north korea would be released today. he is the president's lawyer and he misspoke. he got that wrong. unfortunately those americans, to our knowledge, have not yet been released. there are so many examples. you could spend the rest of the hour, fred, listing off all those falsehoods. it makes our jobs different than they used to be. >> and the president saying that bob mueller worked for president obama, another one yesterday. >> and leaving out all the eras of bush, yeah. >> and i wonder if this kind of confluence of events is also
starting to produce a sort of realization. we talk about whether sarah sanders is now kind of just looking at her body language, if she was starting to wonder what am i into? yes i'm out of the loop. listen to one of trump's trusted advisers, kelly anne conway. one has to wonder if she is coming to some realization or if she is thinking out loud with this realization. listen here. >> kellyanne, when did you first learn that the president reimbursed michael cohen to stormy daniels? >> i had no comment on that. >> did you hear about that before sarah? >> i never heard about that during the campaign. i was the campaign manager and a lot crossed my desk. >> did you hear about it while in the white house? >> i did not. >> while she's smiling and says i'm in step with all this stuff. were you caught flat footed with this information, she's kind of
saying, yeah, i am. >> well that, i think, shows that the trump organization at large, president trump, candidate trump never wanted to have a multiply integrated organization where everybody knew what was going on. that's my point here. where in this white house do you find somebody that -- who is informed, credible and willing to, in real time, do -- give out the answers? the briefing has turned into something that is -- maybe want to be rethought because we're not getting out of it what we should as reporters from these briefings. if you're dealing with somebody who is not informed, no matter how you ask a question you're not going to get a valuable answer. >> that's interesting. i guess the expectations have changed, yes. whether you're getting facts or whether you're getting, you
know, twisted information, it is revealing. and so the purpose of the briefings, you know, still merit great interest because it becomes very transparent to the american public, to the american press that, you know, that something is happening and you can't be left in the dark even if it means not getting clarity. >> i'm not saying stop them. but they're not as useful, obviously, as they could be. >> it's definitely one of the things that the president has had a hard time keeping a communications director. he has gone through a host of these, three people at least right now. he's having a hard time filling that role because people know what they're getting into it. >> we'll leave it there for now. because you'll be back talking about something similar.
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him? >> reporter: well, fred, we certainly are likely not going to see any of these rally-like settings. in this case, the white house saying we are expecting a more roundtable setting. you mentioned a couple of fund-raisers, the president currently at those events right now before he makes his way here to downtown cleveland to participate in this roundtable. the focus, according to the white house, will be that republican tax reform passed in december, but even though they say that a policy will be the focus of the conversation, do expect a mix of politics here in the buckeye state, fred. we are only a couple of days from the primary. according to what we're hearing receipt now, we are expecting to see a couple of republican candidates for the upcoming u.s. senate primary as well as the gubernatorial race. one of the president's picks for that race will be sitting to his left. do expect a mix of both politics and policy as the commander in chief visits what is friendly and very familiar territory for him. but even though that is what the white house says will be the
focus, of course, it's a very unconventional president who tends to stray off script. we will still be watching closely to see if he visits a wide array of topics aside from that tax reform that's supposed to be front and center during his visit in the buckeye state, fred. >> we'll be watching. polo sandoval in cleveland, thank you. >> reporter: you bet. stunning video out of miami as a police officer gets a running start, right there, before kiking a handcuffed man in the head. what's the department saying about this next? today, 97% of employers agree that skills like teamwork, attention to detail, and customer service are critical to business success. the kind of skills, that work for you.
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a miami police officer has been suspended after he was caught on camera kicking a suspect in the head. the suspect was in handcuffs and on the ground. the video may be disturbing to some viewers. cnn's rosa flores has the story. >> reporter: the cell phone video is difficult to watch. a black man is on his stomach getting handcuffed by miami police when officer mario fiera runs into frame. the video appears to show the officer kicking 31-year-old david suazo in the head. then drops to the ground and puts him in a head lock. >> it was unnecessary because he wasn't resisting. >> reporter: you'd never know he was apparently kicked and head locked from reading the police report which says suazo was driving an alleged stolen vehicle, then crashed it when he tried to evade police before fleeing on foot.
>> don't need to do all that, buddy. >> reporter: it was the shocked woman behind the camera who messaged police about the police. >> that man should get fired. he was not a football for you to just kick him the way you did. >> reporter: the miami police chief, swift to take action, tweeting, the video depicts a clear violation of policy. the officer has been relieved of duty. and the state attorney saying she was shocked, appalled and opening an investigation. the man has been charged with fleeing police and other charges. >> the officer is suspended with pay pending the investigation. our phone calls to him and to the police union were not returned. the public defender's office who represents suazel returned our phone calls but says they do not comment on pending litigation. rosa flores, cnn, miami. >> so much more straight ahead in the "newsroom" after this.
do you go to school with kids of different religions? >> there's only one. >> oh, really, okay. so do kids ever make fun of you because of your religion or because you cover your hair or anything like that? >> i had some issues like that last year because i moved to a new school. a kid would make fun of me for having long hair. >> so when the kids were bothering you, you never thought i should not -- i should go home and take this off and get a haircut and try to blend in? >> i actually think i'm lucky to be sikh. i'm happy. >> nice, nice. that's well said. that's definitely going to be on tv, just so you know. he's definitely going to be on tv, he just made the cut.
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♪ olly. hello, thank you so much for joining me. i'm fredricka whitfield. all eyes onthe president waiting to see if he'll respond to the bombshell report in "the new york times." the president has been silent so far after taking off for cleveland to attend a tax roundtable. but here's what "the new york times" is reporting. the paper claims the president has known for months about the $130,000 hush money payment his lawyer made to adult film star stormy daniels. meaning the president was well aware of the deal when he said this in april. >> mr. president, did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no, no. >> why did michael cohen make this